NdSC #42

For the 42th NdSC, I decided to pick this legendary map. It's more difficult than your average Darts map, so I wonder how many people will submit a run.

lol, hard

@Shtaket, very nice run, but the shot at 3:30 would be considered a swing/an arch rather than a swoosh due to rope angle, so unfortunately, your final score is 84 rather than 99.

This is the rope angle of that shot, one frame before you activate drill:


Sorry about the technicalities! I asked Komito to confirm whether my assesment is right or wrong.

You achieved such a high score with a plopped worm, so I believe you can get an even better score in no time.

Cheers.

If that picture is where he activates drill then it's not a swoosh it's an arch.

If he's going ------------------>

Unfortunately that's not how the ninja rope works, there's quirk with the rope making it so it should be released 1 frame earlier than what the rendered frame is showing.

Quote from: Deadcode on October 09, 2017, 03:14 AM
The last rope angle rendered before releasing the rope is never the same as the angle at which the next rope will be shot, unless the rope is perfectly still when released. This is because the rope internally undergoes a frame worth of motion before being released.

Quote from: Masta on April 21, 2024, 08:46 PM
Unfortunately that's not how the ninja rope works, there's quirk with the rope making it so it should be released 1 frame earlier than what the rendered frame is showing.

Yeah but at best it would be totally vertical, and still not a swoosh.

Quote from: TheKomodo on April 21, 2024, 08:51 PM
totally vertical, and still not a swoosh.

Um actually, when going to the right a swoosh is possible at 90° . ☝️🤓

Quote from: Masta on April 21, 2024, 09:59 PM
Um actually, when going to the right a swoosh is possible at 90° . ☝️🤓

To be honest, I've never seen it actually written anywhere. My definition of a swoosh though, is when the rope is past the perfect vertical point moving downwards, basically, the image that Triad showed but the worm would be on the other side at the same point.

That's how I've known it for over 20 years personally.

For the Challenge, it's up to the moderator, so up to Triad really.

The best solution, if possible, is for someone to continue from that frame with TA.

On TA, instead of using a drill on the next frame, they should release the rope; if the next rope shot goes to the right, it should count as a swoosh, and if it goes to the left, it should count as an arch.

Edit: Komito just sent me the TA result. The rope indeed shoots to right, so I'll count it as a swoosh. Shtaket's score is fixed now.

 

Quote from: TheKomodo on April 21, 2024, 10:46 PM
To be honest, I've never seen it actually written anywhere. My definition of a swoosh though, is when the rope is past the perfect vertical point moving downwards, basically, the image that Triad showed but the worm would be on the other side at the same point.

That's how I've known it for over 20 years personally.

For the Challenge, it's up to the moderator, so up to Triad really.

The looks-like-a-swoosh-quacks-like-a-swoosh-but-isn't-actually-a-swoosh could be a its own trick if someone wills it enough, I won't argue about that. I'll say this, you were wrong to advice with certainty based only on an assumption.

Quote from: Masta on April 22, 2024, 08:58 AM
I'll say this, you were wrong to advice with certainty based only on an assumption.

I wasn't wrong because there is no "official" way of doing any move on the rope, its basically what people agree on.

I still don't consider that being a legit swoosh in my eyes, but "technically" its a swoosh using another method of measurement that uses the way the rope shoots only instead of both the way the rope shoots and where you shoot it from.

This is like half the requirements of a genuinely real swoosh.

For a swoosh to be a proper swoosh the rope has to be already diagonal the way you're moving on the side you're throwing it.

That's how I measure it and always will measure it.

Triad allows it. But I wouldn't.

Edit. It's also another funny one...

What's the difference between an arch and a mexi? They are both the same move really, but how you measure them is different lol.

Also, some moves even have different names now than they did 25 years ago when I started roping so i go with the old names and ways of measuring...

TA wasn't even possible back then, a swoosh is not a vertical drop lol, f that, that's a limp swoosh.

It's like...

There is a power variant of most moves as well.

Power spike. Power pump. Power outlaw. Power kick. Power swoosh...

Which is when you do it holding the direction AND up for maximum speed without letting go of either button.

So this is like the complete opposite... The limp swoosh, with no power at all, the absolute bare minimum 🤣🤣🤣

Quote from: TheKomodo on April 22, 2024, 03:23 PM
there is no "official" way of doing any move on the rope, its basically what people agree on.

Yes, that's true. I had a similar problem at the Trick Race chally I hosted two months ago.

---

Quotes from that chally:

Quote from: Triad on February 28, 2024, 03:18 PM
I need the opinion of fellow tricksters.

In flashR's 513.98s run, while he was doing outlaws to swoosh (around 125-sec mark), does his last movement before swoosh count as an outlaw, or is it an inlaw since it was done on a horizontal surface?

Walrus replied to my message:

Quote from: TheWalrus on February 29, 2024, 04:09 PM
i believe the rope direction dictates whether it is inlaw or outlaw.

So I went with rope directions personally since then. But it is true that there are no official descriptions for many tricks. Maybe creating a rope tricks section on WKB with the help of the freestyle/trick community might solve this ambiguity for some tricks (and more importantly, it would be a great resource for newbies).

Quote from: TheKomodo on April 22, 2024, 03:23 PM
there is no "official" way of doing any move on the rope, its basically what people agree on.

I agree, but that isn't what I'm disputing.

Quote from: TheKomodo on April 21, 2024, 08:51 PM
Yeah but at best it would be totally vertical, and still not a swoosh.

Quote from: TheKomodo on April 21, 2024, 10:46 PM
My definition of a swoosh though, is when the rope is past the perfect vertical point moving downwards

I found the rope attachment position and the worm position at the frame of rope release by looking at the game's memory values.
Rope attachment position: 3100.1880340576171875 pixels
Worm position:            3103.64398193359375   pixels

As you can see the the worm is more than 3 pixels further to the right than the rope attachment position.

What this means is that the rope can't be perfectly vertical, in fact it's angled slightly to the right. You should be able to see this for yourself using TA by not releasing the rope.
Even by your own definition it was a swoosh, and you were wrong to assume that the rope would not go past perfectly vertical.

@Triad & Shtaket - Decided to play for 20 minutes just to tie.

This map is actually A LOT easier than I remember, it's really nice! Could definitely get a PG here I've had 3 and 4 bulls in a row a few times and not even fully in the zone yet.

Quote from: Masta on April 22, 2024, 05:52 PM
Even by your own definition it was a swoosh, and you were wrong to assume that the rope would not go past perfectly vertical.

No, you're wrong.

By my definition, the last frame you see the actual rope is what counts. In the TA that I showed, the last frame of the rope was the same as in Triads picture, I released it on the next frame so there was no rope after that so it wasn't facing the right at all it was diagonally left.

It just so happened that there's a, let's call it "crossover point" where it sort of skips from the left side to the right between frames.

It definitely WAS NOT travelling on the right side of the extension though when actually pressing the button. Yes, the rope was shooting right, but the flagpole itself was still on the left side making it, actually an entirely different move in my opinion.

This is not an arch or mexi nor is it a swoosh, it's something else inbetween, something you can only achieve during ONE perfect frame. Since Shtaket sort of found this, he can name it lol.