wkWormOrder v. 1.2.0 released

[nizikawa]

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[nizikawa]

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[Albus]

The replay format is publicly documented on Worms Knowledge Base and does not contain any data regarding the utilized WormKit modules or other technical aspects of runtime environment. So the proposed idea cannot be policed with the current stock version of WA.
However, I have an idea and technical knowledge how to implement a wormkit module that checks the integrity of WA's virtual memory space that could be used in online games to ensure that no modifications to .exe file or private wormkit modules are used. The integrity could be automatically verified by all parties participating in the match and also embedded in custom section of .WAgame replay and submitted replays could be automatically verified by TUS. This would prevent or at least significantly hamper cheating in league games.

Wow. That would be awesome! So, if anyone is using some private module to have laser sight, crate spy, remove water etc., we could know.

[FoxHound]

On the other hand, seeing violent reactions from league players to even the simplest and harmless quality of life improvement made me realize that WA's competitive scene is just better left off alone.

Many players avoided competitive players due to this behavior. Some only play the same schemes and  don't consider different ideas (noob schemes for them). Others only think about league points and stats. Others are against HostingBuddy. Others are against any mods. Others are against different weapon powers or changes in a scheme.

I think that for these players the ideal scenario would be everyone playing with WA 1.0. Any progress to the game, any evolution is wrong. Conservative thoughts only. That's why many people sadly don't enjoy discussing or participating on TUS stuff until today.

[Sir-J]

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[WTF-8]

violent reactions from league players to even the simplest and harmless quality of life improvement

Crab bucket mentality, "I suffer and so must you". Clearly their habits (which would get them laughed out of a hotseat party) are the only correct way to experience the game.

[Albus]

I can already extract turn order from replay files by means of a simple command. And since it's already possible, then how about adding the possibility to show opponent's turn order? Nice module by the way!

Here it is (Linux only):

Code Select Expand

cd ~/WA/User/Games && strings "$(ls -Art | tail -n 1)" | tr "\n" " " | xclip -sel c

What it does is it changes directory to Games, finds the most recent file, extracts strings from it, and copies them in the clipboard.

See how easy it is to obtain such information? No wormkit modules or programming skills required. It can even be assigned to a keyboard shortcut for convenience.

Yeah... I hope people see this and realize that a module to see the opponent's team sequence will just make legitimate and universal something that can already be done "easily" by some people. We're not talking about something like the following: "someone found a way to see what's inside the crates, so let's be democratic and make this cheat universal." In cases like that we need to find a way to detect this and ban this player. In my opinion (sorry for being repetitive here), being able to see the enemy team order will benefit streams and players. Games will become more strategic!

[TheKomodo]

The ignorance here is shocking.

Making statements like "violent reactions from league players to even the simplest and harmless quality of life improvement".

Maybe it's harmless to some of you, maybe some of you don't care about the integrity of competitive gaming. I do, and others do as well.

What I see, are people who want the easy way out, who are not prepared to go the extra mile that hundreds of players have in the past few decades, making things "easier" is not always the best thing to do.

The issue isn't that some people want QoL improvements. Any QoL improvement made because a few people want something made easier is forcing their QoL improvements on everyone.

The sheer ignorance and disrespect of someone saying "Just because I use it, doesn't mean you have to use it" is absolutely selfish! Why should anyone get an advantage over people who want to play naturally because they simply don't want to put the effort in or simply don't enjoy it?

Also saying "If everyone has it, it makes it fair", again, the problem isn't even about what's fair, it's that many people who don't want it will be forced to accept it!

This wouldn't be a problem if it could be kept separate from leagues, though that isn't possible.

[Albus]

Some want the module, while others don't. The debate will go on indefinitely, as both sides see the game from different perspectives. Who decides this impasse?

[TheKomodo]

If we could separate this module from competitive games reported in Leagues, including Cups, Tournaments, or anything else with a professional spirit, i'd be on your side quicker than you could blink.

[cgar]

The ignorance here is shocking.

🪞 (If you can't see it, its the mirror emoji)

Maybe it's harmless to some of you, maybe some of you don't care about the integrity of competitive gaming. I do, and others do as well.

Maybe its a big deal to you, maybe you have a hyper sensitivity about change and reduction of tedium. I don't, and others don't as well.

What I see, are people who want the easy way out, who are not prepared to go the extra mile that hundreds of players have in the past few decades, making things "easier" is not always the best thing to do.

What I see, is someone who has gotten used to tedious aspects being worked around in archaic and tedious ways and is unwilling to accept that its the 21st century now and people can and do want to maximize their time spent trying to have fun, actually having the fun.

The issue isn't that some people want QoL improvements. Any QoL improvement made because a few people want something made easier is forcing their QoL improvements on everyone.

The issue is that some people want QoL improvements. Because apparently any QoL improvement that a few people want should be denied and they should be forced to play in the same way as everyone else.

The sheer ignorance and disrespect of someone saying "Just because I use it, doesn't mean you have to use it" is absolutely selfish! Why should anyone get an advantage over people who want to play naturally because they simply don't want to put the effort in or simply don't enjoy it?

The sheer ignorance and disrespect of someone saying "Just because I wont use it, means that you shouldn't be able to" is absolutely selfish! Why should everyone be forced to endure aspects of the game that they dislike when they can instead focus on what they do like simply because you refuse to?

Also saying "If everyone has it, it makes it fair", again, the problem isn't even about what's fair, it's that many people who don't want it will be forced to accept it!

If everyone has it, it does make it fair, again, the problem is that some people feel entitled to dictate how others play their own copy of the game and then have the cheek to talk about not wanting to be forced.

If we could separate this module from competitive games reported in Leagues, including Cups, Tournaments, or anything else with a professional spirit, i'd be on your side quicker than you could blink.

There is no separating this one. It is trivially wide open via the replay file as well as apparently several other ways. It has been this way for some time and is the state of things as they are currently. But only for a select few. This is entirely unfair and crying out against this module's clearly good faith effort to bring in some transparency demonstrates distinctly that this has nothing to do with integrity for you.
In fact, should your incessant whining somehow cause the module to be crippled, I will make a point to publicly release a tool to make it as easy as possible for anyone expose the info for all teams from the replay file without any message.

[TheKomodo]

We are actually making a lot of the exact same points to each other cgar.

The difference between what i'm saying and what you are saying. You want to force change to something that doesn't need changed, and force people who don't want it to accept it, these modules will dramatically affect strategic games, forever. This is the way the game(even the franchise) was designed, why not make your own game or find another game? It's one reason for even being a turn based game, it's part of it's charm!

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, a minority of lazy, uninterested people should not be allowed to dictate such an important change to the game for eternity.

People have been playing this game the way it was intended for decades. Changing bugs and glitches, and things that are an obvious game engine error or unintentional is fine. To make things easier for a minority who simply can't handle the way the game was created and intended it is simply selfish and ignorant.

Also, talking about the 21st century, the future should not inherently mean everything suddenly degrades in quality, variety, depth and becomes easier for everyone, some things in life are worth the effort, nothing in this life that is worth having comes easy.

Some things should remain challenging, if we allow this then where does it end? What are we actually allowed to protect? What is the limit?

[cgar]

Lol. Causally ignoring the most important point. It is already possible and actual cheaters will be actually already using it regardless of your concerns.

I guess that settles it then. It's official, Komito is just a luddite. Change is his real and only issue, he can't evolve so no one else is allowed to.

His words are like a luddite love letter meme:

[...] to force change to something that doesn't need changed [...]

[...] force people who don't want it to accept it [...]

[...] This is the way the game(even the franchise) was designed [...]

[...] it's part of it's charm! [...]

[...] people should not be allowed to dictate such an important change to the game for eternity. [...]

[...] People have been playing this game the way it was intended for decades. [...]

[...] the way the game was created and intended [...]

[...] the future should not inherently mean everything suddenly degrades [...]

[...] if we allow this then where does it end? [...]

[Kaleu]

LMFAO

[TheKomodo]

We've already discussed that cgar, so i'm quite happy to ignore your immature ramblings.

You saying "that settles it", doesn't actually settle it regardless how much you want it to. Again you are showing ignorance, though feel free to believe it does if it makes you happy.